In the wake of the various cases popping up about social workers in the UK taking Slovak children from their families, now a Slovak man from Poprad and has Polish wife living in Norway have come forward with a similar case there.
The horrible saga for the couple, who have been living in Norway for a few years, started in January 2012 after one of their two children mentioned how his father had given him an educational slap on the backside. When the father and his wife showed up at school, their two boys aged 6 and 8 had gone and the parents didn’t know for hours where they were or why, reports TV Joj.
Worried sick, they eventually got a call from an advocate who told them the children had been taken from school over fears of some violence. According to the father Peter, the children were subjected to two hours of interrogation separately. They parents eventually got their children back after six weeks of fighting, but still with possible criminal charges hanging over their heads.
The Savile case is posing more questions than answers at the moment. He was investigated in 2007 and 2008 about alleged sexual abuse dating as far back as 1959 but both the police and CPS had to drop the cases because th epeople making the allegations or witnesses refused to give evidence.
The latest to make allegations is a female relative of his who has waited 27 years before making a complaint.
If, as it appears, Savile and others were sexual predators and it was known, especially by the BBC, then I hope the three current investigations name names and those involved in any way, receive no mercy in the UK courts.
Having said that, and please don’t think I am being dismissive about all the claims being made, do you not think it strange that these people have waited until he is dead to come forward, not in 2007 or 2008. I have no doubt that during the sex, drugs and rock and roll years there may have been some wrong doing, it could well be true that he was a habitual child molester but I also note that under UK law you can not libel or slander the dead and with a reported 300 alleged victims suddenly coming out of the woodwork I can not help but feel some of them have heard the jingle of cash.
The number 300 is incredible yet not incredible, considering these acts are said to have been going on for 40+ years. Senior officers in the investigation have been quoted as saying sth like ‘there’s no doubt that this man was involved in child abuse on a huge scale’. They also say there are cases which involved Savile and others, or didn’t involve Savile at all. And it’s got to the point where they’re hardly bothering to use the word ‘alleged’ anymore.
As for why people didn’t come forward earlier, you might have answered your own question. ‘You can’t libel or slander the dead,’ you say. But getting on the wrong side of the rich, powerful and charitable while they’re alive could carry very unpleasant consequences. If you’re, say, a teenage girl with behaviour problems, who is going to believe you over sb who’s a loveable eccentric, made hundreds of kids’ dreams come true on a TV show, and run marathons for charity? Savile himself made several not so veiled references to what he could do to people who crossed him.
The idea that the likes of him and a vulnerable teenager are ‘equal before the law’ looks more risible by the day, and I fear there’s worse to come.
I’m enough of a sceptic to have considered your last point – but here is the Scotland Yard Commander leading the investigation quoted in today’s Guardian (sorry George) :
‘Spindler praised the victims who had come forward and said their accounts all corroborated each other. “That is why we can be so confident of their accounts. We believe them because they are all saying the same thing,” he said.’
Having just read Commander Spindler’s press release and some of the more recent reported allegations I have to agree with much you have said. What upsets me most is that I used to stand and chat to the P.O.S. when he was running on the beach in Scarborough.
OH SHOCK, HORROR, PROBE !
An undercover investigation of Slovwakia by the Jim`s mates at the UK Daily Telegraph newspaper, has reported that Slovakia’s poor monitoring mechanism, did allowed low-quality health aids to be imported via Slovakia into Europe……..
Poor monitoring, Oh Please ??
Still all those penis implants of Slovwak Audi Drivers will need a complete service real soon eh ? Makes my eyes water .
Whatever the UK does for its children, it doesn’t seem to make them happy :
The parents are not much happier either, apparently.
This report was in The Guardian for Christ Sake, the current Socialist Worker Mag …what next , come the revolution and when Nu Labour returns to Govern us all, then kids will all of course return to happy smile people, because everyone will not complete at lessons, sport or life and all will be equal (unless you are a MP`s Kid of course ) by order of Ed Balls ?
James, I get the feeling you were a whining, moaning , oh life in the classroom is so unfair, school teacher in another life …picketing the gates for Scargill nutter Miners were you ??
It’s based on a report published by UNICEF.
The Guardian’s a Socialist Worker Mag, the Telegraph’s for right-wing nutters bla bla bla.
What newspaper does have credibility in Georgeworld? Presumably one that publishes only stuff that fits in with your unique take on life.
‘James, I get the feeling you were a whining, moaning , oh life in the classroom is so unfair, school teacher in another life …picketing the gates for Scargill nutter Miners were you ??’
How did you guess??
James/Losgar – here’s something to cheer you up
James – The report you highlight does make sad reading but it doesn’t really address child abuse, kids in care or adoption, does it.
There is nothing new in this study, the warning signs were first posted back in the 80’s if not earlier so we now have a new generation of parents who believe material things and spending power are a substitute for a stable, “normal” family life. The UK adopted the trend from the USA, probably as a result of “peer pressure” advertising and naff TV programs and the results were quickly recognised but no action taken, no doubt because of vested interests. What is sad is that I see the “new European” countries going the same way, kids have to have designer labels, the latest mobile, eat take-aways and the parents feel obliged to work harder and longer to fund their childrens desires which in turn results in a decline in “family activities”. It’s a self perpetuating spiral of social decline but parents can stop it, if they have the courage, they can just say no to the demands and spend some quality time with their kids. Of course it’s not quite as simple as that because it only needs a few parents to continue supplying their children with a hedonistic lifestyle to trigger the cycle and that unfortunately is modern life and is unlikely to change.
Agree with that Dave, including with the first sentence. I could argue that the report gives the whole question a wider context – that there’s more to child welfare than how care systems work – but I’m not going to push it.
The Savile stuff is relevant, to the UK threads, if not to this Norwegian one.
There’s something rotten about any society* that maintains sb’s celebrity status through 40+ years of some of the vilest acts imaginable – and then talks sanctimoniously about how the protection of children is always paramount.
*And we haven’t heard the last yet about how far up society all this went. Health professionals, police, possibly politicians, not just people at the BBC, all knew. And did nothing. Any statements now coming out of that country about how its systems are designed to protect children are just weasel words.
James – The Savile case is relevent but I agree with the article by Mark Easton – bbc.co.uk/news/uk-19870676 and it has to be viewed within the perspective of “normal” UK society at the time of the alleged incidents. As Mark points out, UK society has developed out of all recognition since the days of “Top of the Pops” and “Jim’ll Fix It” all those decades ago. Yes, there does appear to have been some “establishment blindness” to the alleged actions of Sir Jim but if we are going to compare like for like then child protection was a joke during the same time period. The fact is the UK, like most countries, is a different place now to what it was in the 60’s. 70’s so relating historical events to the current situation is not really helpful. How far back do we hark? Young children were forced to work long hours in some of the most dangerous jobs during the industrial revolution but the UK was the first country to outlaw such practises. Mr. Hollis keeps harping on about the patriation of UK children to Australia in the 50’s but no matter how abhorent we find the idea now in 2012 we have to understand the social situation in the UK and the rest of Europe in the years after the World War and try to understand it within that context. As I have said before most societies develop by making mistakes, learning from them and moving on. What matters now is what is happening now and IF it is wrong it needs changing but relating history to the present is no constructive arguement.
‘it has to be viewed within the perspective of “normal” UK society at the time of the alleged incidents.’
I’ve said it elsewhere – I disagree. That view suggests he was only up to his antics in the 60s and 70s. In fact, much of it appears to post-date Esther Rantzen’s campaigns – and a general increased awareness of the problem.
Even if he’d stopped in the 70s, he could still have been investigated before his death. The complaints were out there. He wasn’t, because the system cowered before him.
I am concerned the same allegation shave appeared on another thread, although strictly not relevan as Norway is involvedt..
The first thing I must ask if all these Britis don’t like Slovakia what the hell are the doing working there?.
“I have worked in the Social Service and the British court system for many years”
Again being In Denia land Living in Denial is involved, surely impressing Slovak readers.
Perhaps you should consider working in another area than an international charity or even the Family Court when at home.
Yet again we get an account of the British Family Court form an alternate universe.
For the benefit of SlovaksI again I reiterate;-
1) British Family Court judges rarely if ever listen to the evidence of the family. As a senior solicitor noted for his firm’s defence of families said to us at a conference “it is their training, they are trained not to do so”.
2) Judges will rarely return children home and it is virtually impossible for a family to be found “Not Guilty”.
They will actually announce to parents “I’ve already decided not to send your children home, any future hearings willbe concerend with deciding on Special Guardianships or Forced Adoption.
3) It is untrue parentsaredishonest, only too frequently SS departments make them sign agreements which are impossible, then use it against them when it is claimed they have broken it. This is a standard technique.
4) Forced Adoption is used as the standard solution and the preferred one, judges are openly hypocritical when they claim other avenues have been exhausted.
Britsh Family Court judges have a simple solution as what to do – resign or sit in other areasof the courts than the Family Court.
Mr Smith, or Winston Wilkinson, Reading, Starbuck and thousands of other names, you like to be called on other websites.
By stating an untruth several times, will not make it come true.
Let me follow your own lead . For the benefit of the Slovakians.
Your Points 1 to 4 are a complete fabrication and a lie and as on every website that you infest with your agitation, SPAM and vengeful hated towards certain people, because the Government Body concerned, will not accept your manly male name, after your recent sex change operation .
For your information, I have already returned to the UK and will continue to work with the Social Services, as their legal Council . Yes, I am a Solicitor by trade and a specialist in Human Rights.
Time for small beer and an evening at a Nightclub one feels . See you around 2am then Winston ?
Not prepared to drink with you.
I see as with many “Human Rights” specialists you are an advocate of the antithesis of “Human Rights”.
As you are well aware, points1-4 are regrettably true and promoted by you personally when to appear as legal representative for SS departments.
Posting the same unsubstantiated crap over and over again does make it the truth.
You have a personal axe to grind and it would appear that you make your living attacking the system that you feel treat you badly.
Your supporters have the same agenda and the same methods.
The real facts, the ones you never mention, actually disprove almost every word you post.
For the benefit of Slovak readers:
Winston Smith is an alias, the person making these posts does so from the safety of his anonymity. Despite numerous claims of having “evidence”, Mr Smith has not posted one substantiated fact and this alone should make readers suspicious. I would suggest that anyone who could prove or had proven any allegations against the system would advertise the fact and quote the results – Mr Smith has not done this and never will. Mr Smith and his allies have no interest in the truth, by claiming that there is a society wide conspiracy, which he has even suggested I and others are part of, he has made the perfect business, he post what he likes, make whatever allegations he wishes and then claim that the “conspiracy” prevents him from proving any of them. He has attacked commentators who have exposed his lies and suggested that they are part of the conspiracy. The simple fact is Mr Smith and others are paid anarchists who have found the perfect “conspiracy” to enable them to peddle their own agendas. He quite clearly has no real interest in justice, especially for those who he claims to represent, because he has actually never achieved a result, despite all the evidence he claims to have.
His comments are contrived, untruthfull rubbish – SPAM, pure and simple.
Please someone pass Loghead that banana bunch ….his sugar levels are failing and the guy is whining yet again and again and again and again ….
Did you not leave the building in sniveling protest, at least twice before ???
For all you supporters of the “educational slap” system of dealing with children I suggest you read the EU conventions that Slovakia, Norway UK etc. are party to. Any form of physical repremand constitutes assault and is outlawed. It would appear, yet again, that Slovaks domicile in other countries believe that they can conduct themselves there as they do here and are now upset to find themselves in trouble with the host country’s legal system – tough. As has been said before, if you don’t like the rules abroad – don’t go. This continuing theme of the Slovak way is right and everyone else in Europe has got it wrong, is so very typical as is the “defence” of – “we do this in our home country so it can’t be illegal.” It’s time a good proportion of the population woke up to the fact that the rest of Europe are not going to make allowances for you and it is Slovakia that needs to reform, in almost every area of society, and abide by all the treaties, conventions and laws that it has signed up to.
If a Slovak parent really wants something to complain about – get caught hitting your kids in Turkey, after the “eductaional” arrest procedures they will quickly realise the error of their ways.
You idiot, will you just wake up!! The parents lost their children!! And you call it a trouble???
When you left the UK did you forget to take with you the feeling called empathy?
And I have the same message for you: If you don’t like it here go home!!
Who says it’s illegal to smack your child one or two times on the butt? It’s not on the head and it leaves no red marks.
Someone pass Loghead a banana please .
There is only room for one idiot on this comments page and it appears that you have taken that vacancy.
You posted your last comment on the same day as the body of another child was found here, no doubt the victim of some parental “education”.
The parents lost their children because they committed acts that were unacceptable within the societies in which they lived i.e. They broke the law.
I know law breaking is a national pastime here, respect for the law is non existant and law enforcement is a joke but that does not mean Slovaks or anyone else can ignore the laws of host states.
Empathy – Why should I or anyone else feel empathy for people who broke the law? All this wringing of hands and outrage at Slovak nationals being taken to task for their actions in foreign countries makes me sick. If I broke the law here in Slovakia I would accept that fact, not whinge and complain or try and defend my actions because I can get away with it in my home country. But then again, it’s quite clear that few, if any, people here take any responsibility for their actions, they always have an excuse or play pass the parcel with the blame. Slovak nationals planning on moving abroad should do some research about the society they intend living with and also develope some backbone, honour and integrety and if they can’t or won’t, they should stay at home.
As for “who says it’s illegal” – in the first place the countries mentioned in the articles and secondly, the EU, EEC,UN and just about every other orginisation on the planet do. Just because Slovakia has made no effort to implement the social changes it is duty bound to make under the various treaties it is party to does not mean the rest of the world has to make allowances for your backward society.
Grandpa, you wrote: “…it’s quite clear that few, if any, people here take any responsibility for their actions, they always have an excuse or play pass the parcel with the blame.”
Do you I have to find more pearls in your comment to prove how shallow and stupid your comments are?
You heartless piece of s…, people like you make this world worse, because of people who think like you there is so much suffering even in the developt countries like the UK.
I don’t even want to know what you think of people i.e. like the drug addictees…
LOSGAR – Yes I am so shallow that I have to pretend to be something I am not to try and make an irrelevent comment.
I know it will be alien to you and many other Slovaks but societies only work if the members of that society take responsibility for their actions. It is the norm here to do anything else but.
“People like me make this world worse” ….really? So the world would be a better place if facts are just ignored and emotions replace rational decision making or if people can decide themselves which laws they are going to comply with or not.
The world you prescribe is anarchy, pure and simple.
It’s also a measure of your immature, Alice in Wonderland mentality when rather than make a valid arguement you, yet again, resort to personal insults.
Suffering in the UK….. – Let us mention the fact that over 1% of your country’s population now live in the UK. Out of those about 100 families have had to be dealt with by the family courts. I would suggest that the reason the 99.99% of Slovaks in the UK have, and continue to be, law abiding, integrated members of UK society is that they understand, unlike you, that the rules are different.
Dave C, any idea why our resident Ape keeps calling you Grandpa ? Not exactly inventive from him? I would have thought some pet name, would have some spoonerism, link, or play on words calling, but not old churlish Loghead . It is rather like me calling him Miss Syphilis, Mr Gonorrhea or Master Bates ….?
Alright, I‘ll call him Grandpa Syphilis.
I hope you are happy now.
Having lived in Trencin for 3 years with my Slovak girlfriend, I can only say I was glad to return to the UK in June . What an awful, backward place is that country called Slovakia . The Race of people are miserable, untrustworthy and just a plain unfriendly group of people, with an total arrogance, that only earning 400 euro`s a month can bring ??? .
The way many of them treat their children was saddening I and I saw many `educational slaps on the backside`, whilst I was shopping in the local Billa.
Perhaps this type of behavour is quite normal, as my girlfriend and I have many heated discussions about it, as she approved of the Billa slaps, I did not . It would appear physical violence like this is common in most Slovak households.
You tell me, is it any wonder these kids are being taken away, when a good thumping is considered the best way to control your wayward kids ?
Sure George is happy to have you in the gang Ashley. Just one question: Do you think children should be taken away from their parents and put up for adoption for slapping them on the bum? Have you seen anyone here beat up a child violently?
You realize JB you are talking to George, right? 😀
To answer your questions. Do I think children should be removed from parents, yes if the child is considered at risk? Should children be put up for adoption after a slap, yes if the child is still at risk and we have ended all other social service and legal options ? Have I seen violence against children in Slovakia? Yes many times? Perhaps you should try living outside of Bratislava Kral for a year, in a village say, and it may open your eyes to the real Slovakia and the people. Bloody terrifying in my experience !
Peter, just a short answer, ARE YOU ON DRUGS ????
Ash, welcome to the Pleasuredome . Just to let you know Loosgar is our resident site chimp . If you read up about perverts and peod`s you will find they move from country to country to avoid police detection . Mr L , claims he has lived in America, Australia, Africa, many parts of Europe and now amazingly China ……I guess you can paint your own picture here ?
BTW. Had a bad trip in Slowvakia …did your woman turn native when she returned home then ?
Ashley, I have been here for 23 years, lived from the very north to the very south. I believe I know Slovak people very well, and I also know British people and society well enough. I am ashamed at many of the comments made here by British people, who will defend the system no matter what, without even looking at the human element, both on the side of the families, but more importantly, on the side of the people involved in the system. All systems have flaws, and every human is imperfect, even professional spammers. There can be no words to express the low level you guys go to just for the sake of being arrogant, void of all sensitivity for either parents or children, so it is even more astonishing that you try to take some moral high ground on the issue, even directly in the face of parents commenting here who are suffering terribly. Ironically, most children are taken for fear of ‘future emotional abuse’ (figures rising rapidly over past 5 years), which needs no justification whatsoever, while you practice emotional abuse here on this website and other places.
JB, for a long time you’ve been talking about how to make people commenting on this web site behave.
So far you’ve done only one thing – you moderate some comments, included mine. That’s alright with me and apparenty it’s also alright with George. George still has his ways of making new identities, like Ashley f.e..
I honestly think he has head problems. 2 weeks ago he talked about killing people and his comments made it through. How could it happen?
George is a mental man. People might think – there are crazy people everywhere so here is one from the UK. But he encourages others to follow his example.
I want to stay away from all of this it’s just he knows how to get under the skin.
I’m trying to say – just ban the people that brake your rules /included me if you want/ and it will be a good start.
About all the UK people showing no heart – I think it’s not about all of them. Just a few got gathered here, aggresive hyenas which had smelled human blood and tears.
How could it happen? My opinion is you let it go too far for too long. You can still stop it if you are really serious about it.
Just ban them and you can start with me.
Ash mate, in case you did not realise J Bod is the Editor of the web news here . Does make you wonder eh ?
~~~ There can be no words to express the low level you guys go to just for the sake of being arrogant, void of all sensitivity for either parents or children, so it is even more astonishing that you try to take some moral high ground on the issue, even directly in the face of parents commenting here who are suffering terribly. Ironically, most children are taken for fear of ‘future emotional abuse’ (figures rising rapidly over past 5 years), which needs no justification whatsoever, while you practice emotional abuse here on this website and other places. ~~~~
What was that you said about us taking the moral high ground ? The fact is, we few (Ash, DC, Wust etc ) know the British system better than you JB of 23 years not living in Britain . We have faith in it, where you have been sold, hook line and sinker against it by a cock at TV JOJ . Yes, the SS get it wrong sometimes, but you it appears as Editor, actually believe all this `suffering terribly` from some parents posting??
Of cause it is far sexier reading for viewing figures to have a conspiracy ring of people trading kids for profit …..all rather like the ` Body Parts for Sale ` articles you ran earlier . If this balanced, fair and unbiased reporting then God help us all.
Yes, well you are always right and those terrible Slovaks just the pit of the earth. I bow to your superiority in all things George.
For last three years the Slovak girlfriend was good for you right?
Parents decide when the want a children. They are responsible to educate them and not Social service…
If parents seen that the children does not respect them. Than its fully approved to slap a child on the backside… to educate.
If children does not respect parents than who will be respected? Social service? I do not think so…
I am not saying that this method is perfect. But it has a positive and of course negative side… As everything.
Child abuse is all arround the world. We will not stop by creating a social service which is taking children for fostering for every unconfirmed suspicius…
Pete old son, lets be clear . Respect is earned not bullied . It is not acceptable to slap anyone, any shape, any age, any size . We moved on in the western EU and said …hey you know what, children have equal rights too . If you slapped an adult, to educate them in say the street, or Tesco`s, then Police and the justice system will normally step in . So why not the same for kids ?
Oh you say , I have a right to slap my child because I am their parent ….No, it is an assault and children have rights, not to be attacked, even under the premise of education, let alone punishment. They are an individual person, with rights as any other person. OK you are responsible for them, but they are not your personal possession, to do as you wish ! The Police, Social Services and others have a duty of care to the less able to defend themselves, as does any other member of society. What often starts as a flat hand later becomes a slipper, then a fist, a frying pan, then baseball bat ….then this action, moves from father to son, father to son and to be considered as `normal` respect behavior.
Sad to say, there a sad lack of actual news on this website ….Once there was four quite interesting articles a day, now we are lucky to get two ….and of course rather than print news, we get the latest made up update, on any kids being protected from bad Slowvat parents . Boring ?
A little girl was taken from her Polish parents by the Norwegian SS because her father had kissed her directly on her lips in front of her school. That was the only reason why she was taken. The father hasn’t seen her since.
The Polish media talked about this case over the last 2 weeks.
‘an educational slap on the backside’ i.e. a good old-fashioned beating with scars and bruises to prove it.
aha, you were there
That’s what it usually means. It is called a euphemism/smokescreen, call it what you will. You honestly believe a child would tell the school and the police ‘dad gave me an educational slap on the backside’?
All this emotive and tendentious ‘horrible saga’, ‘Worried sick’, ‘interrogation’, ‘fighting’, ‘criminal charges hanging over their heads’ should be left out. TV joj is particularly guilty of this sort of thing. It is called ‘dog-whistle journalism’ and should be left to the likes of the Daily Mail whom nobody in their right minds takes seriously anyway.
Reading between the lines, the school had legitimate fears that the child had been subjected to violence and called the police. I doubt very much whether the children were strapped down and waterboarded and then thrown into a cell with bright lights and heavy metal music as suggested by the word ‘interrogation’. Upon questioning the father he will have said that he had given the child an ‘educational slap’, which was presumably not borne out by the evidence, hence the need for further investigation which took a few weeks. If they are facing criminal charges then I trust the Norwegian authorities will do the right thing. The way they dealt with the Breivik case was admirable, for example – there is no reason to expect that they will deal with this any differently. But maybe Joj will make out that they were targeted deliberately because one of the parents was Slovak or some such nonsense.
This is highly irresponsible journalism. Child abuse is real and is perpetrated by people from all walks of life and of all nationalities. If you want to report on such matters then do so after the case has finished. Prejudicing the case beforehand does nobody any favours.
The Norwegian SS made a mistake either when they took the children from the parents or when they returned them.
Either way they must’ve made at least one.
It’s shocking for me to see how some people totally lack any feelings of empathy and enjoy kicking people who are already downer then down.